Episode 10: Season 2 finale, “Valar Morghulis”

Elena: This episode was, I think, on the whole better for those who only watch the show. I don’t know if that has quite happened enough to be called a trend yet, but I think we are beginning to see points where the changes are chapping even the most calloused of book fans’ asses, and those of us who don’t know what was in the books or should have been on screen don’t question what happens or think less of it, because we have no basis for comparison. We only react to what did happen, not what we thought would happen or what we wanted to happen.  Well, the part about what we want may not be totally true—I imagine the internet would have rioted if Tyrion came up with a case of the deads, since we all wanted him to live.  So I guess that seems a good time to ask Rachel what she thought of how HBO handled Tyrion’s fall from grace?

 

Rachel: HBO continues to give Peter Dinklage all the good scenes! But it’s not all jokes. Dinklage is showing Tyrion is one of the more complicated characters in this story. It’s not so fun seeing Tyrion afraid, but waking up after The Blackwater is probably the scariest thing Tyrion’s ever experienced. Ending the season with the cocky Tyrion in a forgotten room, unsure about his health or his future is pretty pitch perfect.

Pycelle is back up, Tyrion is down, and I don’t think any of us know what to think of Shae. I loved that scene between Shae and Tyrion. Shae is the only person Tyrion ever confides his fears in, the person he shows any weakness to, and she in turn always tells him exactly what she thinks. Her dismissal of his “I’m a monster” statement is pretty much how I felt about his injury. POOR BABY. You got a booboo?

I knew they weren’t actually going to chop off his nose and force Dinklage to wear a terrible prosthetic for the rest of the series. I’m hoping they keep it extra juicy and infected looking otherwise, we’re in the same situation I felt when I saw The Phantom of the Opera, and Gerard Butler’s HIDEOUS FACE was really just a handsome dude with a  sunburn….

Not gonna lie, when Tyrion cried I definitely got choked up. What do you think Elena, do you trust Shae with Tyrion’s emotionally scarred heart?

Elena: This was the episode where you feel sorry for Tyrion because he was riding high and thinking he was the big man in King’s Landing only to get brought lower than ever when his dad strolls in and saves the day with the Knight of Fucking Flowers (literally….Loras fucks flowers. Peach blossoms, specifically. Like what I did there?), and suddenly it’s like Tyrion was never in King’s Landing and had nothing to do with saving it.  Joffrey gets to sit there and pretend like he didn’t piss himself on the battlements, Tywinning lets his horse shit all over the throne room, and Tyrion isn’t even allowed to watch the joy of Papa Lannister starting to put his dipshit grandson in his place (because you know if anyone can control King Fucktard the First, it is Tywinning).  Instead Tyrion is in a monk’s cell somewhere with Maester Pycelle cackling over getting revenge for the beard-trimming, while Tyrion is moping and being depressed over the fact that he is now “a monster as well as a dwarf.”  Um, I think that line made more sense in the books.  Having a pretty clean battle scar isn’t quite enough to make someone a monster, especially not in a land where the men in charge are, as The Hound likes to point out, killers and knights themselves.  Probably half the lords in Westeros have battle scars.  They just make a man look like…well, a man.  Welcome to the big boy club, Tyrion.

As to Shae, I am reluctantly impressed with her that she chose to stay with him.  I almost think she means it.  Maybe she still sees him as just the best thing that’s ever happened to her and a better prospect than anything else she could find, but she seemed genuine in her anger on his behalf.  Fuck this place and these people, they don’t respect you so let’s just leave.  Tyrion would be no one across the sea, even if he still had money, so she can’t just be with him because of his being a Lannister.  I might not “get” their relationship but it seems like it’s being built into a real one, maybe not Robb and Talisa style lusty and frantic love but the solid, trusting kind of love.  At this point I trust her not to run out on him…but I don’t trust her not to get herself killed off or imprisoned and then used against him later.

Rachel: The cut from the Tyrion/Shae scene to Robb and Talisa being married was hilarious. Those tricksy writers! Also hilarious? The entire wedding scene.

WUT? That was the cheesiest, stupidest thing I’ve ever seen! Let’s be real…if Talisa is from Volantis, girl doesn’t know any chants about the Seven! They were married under the Seven when Robb is supposed to be the King of the GOD DAMN NORTH?!

This show can be so uneven about details! Robb is also part Tulley, so fine. There’s your argument for the ceremony, and this all would have made perfect sense had he married Jeyne Westerling. But he didn’t. They changed her to Talisa and made up this hugely complicated reason for why she’s even on the continent in the first place, so it would only make sense they be married in the Northern tradition, and I realize this is nitpickery of the highest order but I’m just going to be that person right now.

Cut later to Cat trying to tell Robb what an ASSHOLE he has been to the Freys…too much is being made of how disrespectful Robb was to Cat (duh, he just defied her wishes and married some landless ho, and you think he’s going to apologize?) and not enough about how there is one angry Bridge-having family out there. Robb has mightily offended the Freys and as yet has no siblings to placate them with other marriages. He’s lost Winterfell to Theon.  He’s ignored every piece of advice Roose Bolton has given him.

Robb might be pretty, but he doesn’t even have the family duty that Ned had and so might win the award for Stupidest Main Character of Season 2. Elena, do you agree?

Elena: CONCURMENT ACHIEVED.

Normally I am pro following your heart.  And, Robb, I GET why you want to marry a woman you think is going to be a better queen for you and an inspiration to your people, someone hard and yet gentle, tough and yet compassionate, strong and brave and independent.  The thing is, you are being very un-Stark right now.  Is that your Tully side creeping out?  Are any of Ned’s children proper Starks?  Maybe Jon should count himself lucky he’s Ned’s bastard and not another Tully spawn, since that set of genes is starting to seem overpowering.

Because here’s the problems I have with Robb’s decision making.  First, it’s unnecessary.  Talisa is obviously willing to be kept on the side if you are where her heart is.  Maybe that doesn’t bear up once you’re actually married, but maybe it does.  She seemed like she understood.  Second, it wrecks an allegiance and will piss off your bannermen.  It makes you look kind of…well, not a man of your word.  The reason they are following you is because you were a Stark.  Being a not a man of your word is basically saying you’re a Stark only in name.  How can they trust you now?  Especially when you didn’t ride back to retake Winterfell?  You aren’t keeping your promises to your allies or your own kin…how can any man who rides with you expect you to keep a promise to him now?

The thing about building trust is, it means you keep promises even when it is really inconvenient or hard for you to do that.  You should have kept the bridge.  I hope you don’t regret burning it too much later.  I hope Talisa’s magical hoo-ha is enough to hold your throne.

Yeah.  Good luck with that.

So speaking of Winterfell…shall we swing North for a bit?

Rachel: God, the Winterfell scenes are where I went from a smiley, happy TV-watcher to an increasingly grimacing, pissed-off book person. WHAT IS HAPPENING, YOU GUYS? The majority of the changes make sense to me. They’ve streamlined Theon’s journey (gotten rid of Reek entirely?) and decided that it’s just easier for the Iron Born to hit Theon over the head, burn Winterfell down, and leave.

Right? At this point I kind of don’t know what the heck is happening. I have my theories about how to get to the next stage, but since this is a no-spoil discussion, you guys are just going to have to hit me up on Twitter for them.

Meanwhile Osha, Bran, Rickon, and Hodor emerge from the Winterfell crypts to a devastated and empty, largely bodiless Winterfell. (One can only assume the Iron Born took people with them). The only one left was the dying Maester Luwin. The scene in which he says good bye was rather powerful and drives home that the North is a place of Duty and Honor. Under the Heart Tree he bids Bran go North. We even got to hear Rickon speak like a human being instead of a feral child (I was genuinely shocked when he said something and sounded normal). Super sad. Bran is now on his own. His only adult ally is a wildling woman, plus he has a simpleton and the direwolves (YAY DIREWOLVES! DID YOU SEE THEM? I LUFF THEM). Rickon has mastered speech, which is a definite plus, but I don’t know how much fighting he can do? Give the kid a rock I guess.

Between the Iron Islands being in open revolt, Winterfell burned to the ground and its people killed or scattered, Jon far beyond the Wall, and Robb stuck somewhere in the Riverlands with decreasing options…looks like the Starks are in for a hell of a season 3.

Elena: Okay, am I the only one who had zero doubts about what happened at Winterfell?  Asha took her 500 knights and surrounded it, then went annoying-sister apeshit on her brother.  I figured the men on the inside with him recognized that horn and that’s how they knew to just bonk him on the head and go home.  Then Asha the expert pillager burned a stone keep down.  If anyone can do it without dragons, it’s her.  I mean, self-evident, right?

I heard from Rachel that this was not obvious if you had read the books because you were expecting something else to happen.

You guys: this is why I’m not reading the books until show’s done.  It’s just so much more enjoyable for me to watch, not only when I don’t know what’s coming but also when I don’t expect one thing and get something else.

Anyway, about Maester Luwin’s suggestion to Theon that he run to The Wall.  Luwin had an interesting comment, that he doesn’t serve the family—he serves the place.  I wasn’t sure he meant it until he said all that about the Night’s Watch.  He really did want to save Theon from himself.

Too late.  Theon was all ready to go down in a blaze of glory…only to have his sister take that away from him.  But the sequence just proves all over again that he’s not really getting the Iron Islander ethos.  I cannot imagine any pirate being willing or interested in a martyr’s death when there is a tunnel to escape via.  The fact that Theon was ready to choose death over being seen as a coward is very much a Winterfell thing.  Pirates don’t give a shit about how they are seen. They give a shit about staying alive and getting their plunder.  Why would they die for a shitty keep on a shitty steppe somewhere shitty and not by the sea?  That was Theon’s last gasp of hatred for the Starks.  Guess he really did hate them.  I can tell you why, Robb….

I look forward to seeing what happens to Theon now that he has been pwned by his sister once again.

Shall we speak of happier things?  Tell me what you liked best about this episode.

Rachel: The throne room was my favorite scene in the entire episode. A bunch of powerful liars in a room together being forced to pay homage to a megalomaniac douche. HA HA. It’s amazing. From Tywin refusing to walk anywhere on foot, to the farce of putting Sansa aside in favor of the vast wealth and men of the Tyrells. Hilarious. When Maergery made her speech about having a love for Joffrey take root deep inside her, the only person I felt bad for was Joffrey. He’s the only one in the room who doesn’t seem to understand that everyone is full of shit. A castle full of vipers ready to devour him; the only thing holding them back is tradition and his chaotic behavior.

IT’S GONNA BE GOOD.

Anyone else hear Sansa echo Cersei’s “Enjoy” when Maegaery stepped into the limelight? Stupid Littlefinger had to ruin it by creeping in like he always does with his “you’re not free, yet!” speech. Go creep on Harrenhal, Petyr! I hear it’s LOVELY there!

No, I love Littlefinger. They’ve made him inscrutable in the show by making him tell everyone his plans, all the plans being different. It’s just as effective as book Littlefinger, who mostly keeps everything to himself but the pointing and the laughing. The end result is “creepy fucker who knows too much and says too little of substance,” and that’s all we can really hope for.

Elena: I was laughing my ass off through this entire sequence. From that perfect plop of horse shit (seriously, I think they just made everyone wait while the camera rolled on that horse’s ass until it dropped a load) to Joffrey’s haplessness in the face of grown-ups to Sansa’s amazing acting skills…goodness.  I WANT MORE OF THIS, PLEASE.  Rachel and I talked on one of the podcasts about the lack of courtly flourishes and politicking in the show thus far.  This was the first scene where we really got to see it in full flower, the platitudes and false speaking and posturing and obeisance to the proper form.

I will admit, I was not actually sure Joffrey understood he was allowed to set Sansa aside.  I believed him when he told Margaery he could not break his vow…like I thought he actually meant that.  I thought that because of how confused he looked when Pycelle stepped forward again and said the gods didn’t require him to keep promises to traitors.

I hope he was the only one in the room not acting, because that underscores that the point Littlefinger made to Sansa is also true of Joffrey:  it’s a room full of liars, every one of them better than you.  Joffrey, for all that he has been invested with the powers of the kingship, is still a little boy who wants to be led except when he is throwing a tantrum.  He is weak, malleable, and dangerous only because he is marginally insane.  If he did not have that edge of psychosis…he would be an utter puppet.  Instead he will become a puppet through the manipulation of his weaknesses and ignorance and self-absorption.

I am sooooo interested to see Margaery square off against Cersei.  I think in her Cersei will find an apter pupil than she did in Sansa…and someone who will not overtly compete with her.  The longer I’ve had to think about this, the more convinced I am that Cersei wanted Sansa gone because Sansa threatened her—threatened to expose Cersei for what she is and be an example of what she should have been but isn’t. Sansa was too scared and ignorant to realize that every time she said the perfect thing or showed just that flash of ladylike courage, it made her more and more unacceptable to Cersei.  Sansa would have made a tragic but noble figure as Joffrey’s queen.  She could make someone like The Hound disobey his master for her sake.  She had the ability to inspire pity and pride and loyalty…and it would be loyalty to HER, not to the king.  And since she is the daughter of a man killed as a traitor for being too honest and too honorable, and the sister of a rebel king…a city of people more loyal to her than her husband must have made Cersei’s butthole pucker up with fear.

Margaery, on the other hand, will not overtly compete with Cersei because she will be playing the game of eager queen-to-be learning the game from her mother-in-law.  She understands that it is a game, and overt competition will be the quickest way to lose what she has within her grasp.

Littlefinger’s bit at the end was priceless.  The people at work thought he did it out of kindness, out of love for Cat. Hahahahahaha.  Oh, hell, no.  He might have a weakness for Catelyn Tully Stark in that he still has emotions about her…but I don’t believe for a second he still loves her.  I think he still wants revenge for that rejection.  I was shocked he didn’t offer to marry Sansa just to keep her safe from Joffrey…wouldn’t that be the ultimate in your FACE to his old love?  Marry the daughter who looks just like her but is ten times more submissive, so he not only upgrades to the younger model as an older man but also upgrades it to a personality he can completely control?  Personally, I think that is his goal.

Sansa best watch herself if she stays in King’s Landing.

GIRL, YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE WITH THE HOUND!

Rachel: Can we talk about Stannis now?

My favorite lobster king is having issues with being so thoroughly defeated, but then again who wouldn’t be having a hissy in their high tower table-map room if they just got Tywinned ten seconds before total victory?

I feel for you, Stannis. I feel. And I can understand why a godless man who yearns for greatness, such as yourself, would stare into the ambient lighting and see your inevitable greatness staring back at you. Clearly Stannis hasn’t given up.

Or they’re just crazy.

Even then, I would expect Stannis to talk about his missing, presumed dead, right hand man Ser Onion! NO TEARS FOR YOUR BESTIE? C’mon Stannis!

Look into the flames! Do you smell onions?

Elena: I don’t have much to say about this scene, since, obviously Stannis wasn’t going to give up the war just because he lost the battle, and just as obviously Melisandre is going to make sure she has a firmer hand on the second campaign.  But all I could think watching it was how much he looked like Eric in The Little Mermaid when that evil sea witch has him under her spell.  And then their relationship suddenly made perfect sense, and I felt really sorry for Stannis.

Even more sorry for Davos, who lost his son to that bitch’s shell spell!

Ugh.  Let’s go someplace where the bad guys don’t win!  Like…Jaime and Brienne!

Rachel: Ya know, strictly speaking, book-Brienne wouldn’t have vengefully castrated that guy to kill him. But I think it makes her more interesting when she is more overtly pissed off about how women are treated in Westeros. It’s nice. In a cast of characters that feature plenty of strong and interesting female characters, not many of them are outspoken about the role of women in their society. Cersei complains but acquiesces; Arya is still too young for her rejection of feminine roles to be a social statement. Asha is an interesting case, as she fills in for her father’s absent sons, but the contrast between her and Brienne is that Asha embraces traditionally masculine roles without any regret, while Brienne is far more sensitive. Forced into masculine roles in order to gain agency for herself while at the same time pushed away from feminine roles due to her size and appearance—at time it seems that Brienne had no choice. It was either take control of her life through violence or live life as an unloved,  mocked wife of whatever man offered her father the best deal. Something Asha doesn’t have to contend with – plenty of men find her appealing, and it seems the Greyjoys have no compunctions about women inheriting.

The relationship between perfect manly man/family honor Jaime and imperfect female/imperfect male family rejecting Brienne is, as I have said before, one of the best relationships in the entire series. They make each other more interesting simply by being in each others’ proximity! Not to mention the hilarity of no bullshit Brinne calling out Jaime’s every utterance.

The cast is only going to get bigger as we move into season 3, but I hope to see much more of The Jaime and Brienne Show!

Elena: This sequence.  Oh, my god, this sequence. I think it might have been my favorite moment of the show when Brienne kills those Stark men and we see Jaime’s face in the aftermath.  And he’s basically like, “I…might not be able to beat her.  Holy shit, this woman is FIERCE.”  Like…Brienne is such a badass that she turned Jaime Fucking Kingslayer into a lisping gay man for a couple seconds.  That was amazing.

So can I confess something?  I didn’t realize the bodies were women until they talked about them being she’s.  I thought Brienne was just that respectful at first, which seemed oddly naïve, but one thing I will say about Westeros…there has been a lot of abusing of women but not too much killing of them, at least so far.  So her reaction, even aside from any considerations of latent anger a lady knight might have about the way women are treated by men, made more sense. In fact, WAS it anger on behalf of women (vs men) so much as it was anger on behalf of INNOCENTS (vs ravagers and false knights)?

Either way I’m glad they stopped.  I’m glad we got to see her in action one more time this season, I’m glad Jaime got to see it so maybe he’ll stop mouthing off every five minutes, and I’m glad we got to see the complicating factor of her not working for the Starks but only Catelyn.  That…is going to come back later, I sense.

Rachel:  And in things that just won’t stop coming back…Ros met Varys.

While I LOVE me some quality Varys time…this scene was bull. Like Varys would stroll into Petyr’s whore house in broad daylight to offer his top whore a spying position? HBO is really trying to make Ros happen for us. I won’t deny that she might know her share of juicy bits—isn’t that what Petyr uses her for? I think this scene was just an excuse for the writers to reiterate that while Petyr seems to desire legitimate and public power, the motivations of Varys are still pretty unknown. Sex doesn’t work on him, so Petyr is at a disadvantage when it comes to manipulating his rival (are they rivals?), but Petyr might be in better with the nobility – since HBO sent him on a tour of Westeros this season.

You never know with Varys. All you really know is that he’s a eunuch. HBO seems really fixated on telling us that repeatedly. And we know that whatever Ros decides, no one wants to be stuck between Littlefinger and the Spider.

Elena: This scene just made no sense to me.  I expect Varys is right and Littlefinger is criminally underusing her.  But do we really think Littlefinger doesn’t have a line onto every man (or woman) who walks into his brothel?  Come on.  He’s not going to let his Commader Ros Riker of the whoreship Cunterprize become a spy for his greatest enemy.  Please.

If HBO takes that route and she survives more than two episodes of it, I call bullshit.  Maybe they just wanted a scheme to kill her off?

Oh, and speaking of characters killed off:  Goodbye, Jaqen H’ghar!

Rachel: It’s time for terrible poetry.

 

Goodbye Jaqen H’ghar

we have watched you from afar

kill every man the wolf desired

and part your hair so ’twas two colored.

 

Elena is going to ask me if you ever come back

I will distract her with Syrio flack

a beauteous man if there ever was

a deadly genie, a faceless one.

 

Elena: RIP, Hot Jaqen!  Your new face did NOT amuse me.  But I know why you did it: you didn’t want Arya to regret her choice.  I would not regret that choice after seeing your new mug, so well done.

Also…where the fuck are all these different magical people coming from?  None of them are from the Seven Kingdoms.  What is up with that?  No indigenous magic on the entire fucking continent?  Rachel likes to call the Stark kids wargs and snarl about the fact that HBO is cutting their connection to their wolves and Bran’s prophecy-dreaming, so what else is indigenous to this part of the world that we aren’t learning about?  I mean, across the sea we have the witches like Melisandre, the Faceless Men, the sorcerers of Qarth, the Targaryens and their fire-magic…what happened here?  Why didn’t they have all this shit?  No wonder they were so fucking defenseless when the Targaryens showed up with their dragons.  And if the Targaryens were all that was keeping it off the continent…no wonder all of these new beings are adventuring across the sea now!

Anyway, on the Arya plot front…we now have the Continuing Adventurs of Arya and Hot Pie and Gendry.  Arya wants to find Robb or rescue Sansa.  I love that she finally remembers her sister.  Has Sansa thought about her at all?  She would never have brought Arya up, of course, since that is obviously a subject you just don’t talk about in front of…well, anyone in King’s Landing since they all have egg on their face for Arya escaping without a trace.  But I wonder if she thinks about her.  Surely?  But Arya was the one whom Ned reminded that blood is blood, and when winter comes family will matter more than anything.

Interestingly, given that Starks at least start as the focal point of the series, the action across two seasons so far has been to put as much distance as possible between all of the Stark children.  They are all separated from their family right now.  They all have to make new families…Arya with her boys, Robb with Talisa and his men, Jon with his brother crows and now the Wildlings, Bran and Rickon with Osha.  Sansa…Sansa is the only one truly alone.  Poor little bird.

Dany and the House of the Undying (are all her dothraki back from the dead?):

Rachel: I would probably have made it through the episode in enjoyment despite the Winterfell confusion if not for everything that happens with Dany and Jon (who I will get to in a second).

Ugh… I feel like such a chump! Getting all “Elena, TAKE NOTES WHEN PEOPLE TALK TO DANY IN THE HOUSE OF THE UNDYING”. Um…yea, about that….

WHAT IS FRAGGITY FRACK SHIT HUH?

Can I just say that not ONE of the “visions” Dany saw in that episode occurred in the book? Do I treat them as canon? IN which case – did HBO just spoil the hell out of us by showing us the Iron Throne covered in ash, the ceiling burned away by what we assume would be Dany’s dragon fire?

DID THAT JUST HAPPEN?

And the Drogo thing – I guess it was nice that we got a cameo, but, damn, that fake beard was gross looking! EWWW DON’T TOUCH IT.

So yea, I was hoping for at LEAST the “Three” prophecy since Dany uses it to examine and govern her decisions from here on out. It’s so disappointing to see one of the most important moments in a favorite character’s storyline get completely and utterly cut. Sigh. I’m also going to assume that the dragons succeeded in burning down the house of the Undying? I get it – the fire budget was all used up in “The Blackwater.”

Just…go, Dany. Go buy a ship. Go somewhere. LEAVE QARTH. Leave weirdly and for no reason at all heterosexual Xaro. Leave him and that dumb ho, Doreah, locked up in that empty vault. TAKE the golden peacock! (BTW – raise your hand if you were all, “Where did all of Dany’s Dothraki come from? Weren’t they all dead?)

March onward to your incredibly boring Feast and Dance storylines! ONWARD, I SAY! And this time you don’t even have an idea of what direction to go in because you never heard Quaithe’s “you must go East to go West” prophecy, either!

So…just…go. Go be aimless. Have some temper tantrums. Lose your dragons repeatedly. I don’t even care anymore.

Elena: I was underwhelmed by the House of the Undying itself.  It seemed…well, honestly, here’s what it seemed.  It seemed like that could have been an entire episode by itself—I mean, Labyrinth made a feature film out of the exact same premise—and because it could not be its own episode, the true threat or power of the place was diminished.  I felt like there should have been traps there, or more obvious prophetic type visions…something besides a couple random flashes of other places and a quick jaunt from The Wall to the Nightlands (or wherever Drogo was supposed to be).

That being said…the ending of her sequence, both endings really, was fucking awesome.  When she looked at those chains and then at her dragons and was like…fuck this.  Dragons, take my fury and make it burn. MAKE IT ALL BURN…I think I squealed like a school girl.  That was the best.  And I was just thinking…um, sorcerer?  I know your powers just came back and you’re feeling your oats and everything, but…what part of DRAGONFIRE do you not quite get?

The ending with the empty vault was also fabulous.  I half-jokingly wrote “watch it be empty” in my live blog and then got to feel uber-smart when it turned out to be true.  What a clever man he was!  All he had to do to be the richest man in Qarth was TELL everyone he was the richest man in Qarth so many times they eventually stopped asking for proof! Amazing!  I actually wonder how many of the so-called richest men in Qarth were actually rich at all, or if they all just put their actual wealth into their world-at-hand and kept nothing in reserve but pretended they had ten times more where that came from?  Was Qarth basically the double-mortgaged American gated community of Westeros?  Where everyone drives a Lexus but lives in an unfurnished house and eats nothing but beans and rice because they have no money left to spend?

So Dany has enough for a small ship, and now her dragons have found their fire.  I still don’t think it’s enough for her to go “home” yet.

This is something Rachel mentioned to me in our drunkcast, that Dany sees things in the House of the Undying that shape her decisions from here on.  The fact that she didn’t makes me wonder if she is going to continue to have her agency as an individual undermined by plot events that force her path to turn, versus her choosing to turn onto a different path?  Like will she get shipwrecked instead of choosing to wait to cross the sea until she can do it on the back of a dragon because she saw a vision of herself flying into the Seven Kingdoms for the first time?  That sort of putting her at the mercy of tangential forces rather than making her the centrifuge of her own momentum.  I much prefer characters who both have agency but are forced to react to the world around them.  Even when they make poor choices (cough *Robb* cough), I still prefer the ones who are able to be actors and not simply reactors.

Rachel: Speaking of visions left out of The House of the Undying scene was one which, coupled with a memory/dream of Ned’s that the writers left out of Season 1, is the basis for a theory on Jon’s parentage. But that seems to have been erased from the show, so please GOD don’t bother Googling any algebra equations that solve for J. (Really, don’t. You’ll be spoiled IMMEDIATELY about events because the internet assumes if you are Googling book theories that you have read the books).

And that isn’t even the stuff that had me all mad and yelling in the street (actual. I was yelling in the street). No, see…I’m pissed off about Jon vs. The Halfhand. Because they spent all damn season stretching the storyline beyond the Wall. Spending multiple episodes at Craster’s Keep and digging latrines and chasing girls through the snow, and they didn’t have TEN SECONDS for Qhorin to tell Jon that one pivotal line, “When the time comes, you do what they ask of you.” Because Jon kills the Halfhand UNDER ORDERS. Not because Qhorin spends a bunch of time pushing him and calling his mother a whore – but because Qhorin knows that if the wildlings have captured him they will kill him slowly, OR his death can be used by Jon to gain acceptance into their group as a deserter. Couple that with Jon playing it like he killed the Halfhand because he can and wants to fuck Ygritte – that’s what this scene should have been. Instead it’s a stupid scene. A STUPID SCENE. Is it clear that Jon did not want to kill one of his heroes? Is it clear that Jon is doing this to gain information about the army that Mance Rayder is massing beyond the wall because it is a threat to the realm?

Is Jon just too much of a traditional fantasy hero with a special destiny to make it in the big bad world of HBO dramas? It’s like, “Oh, ya know, Jon is too good. Let’s make him a fucking dick. We can call him stupid for an entire season and then have him kill the old guy at the end for being disrespectful.” Was that a round table discussion or is this a result of over editing?

Ughhhhhh. UGHHHHHHHHHH!!! I’M SO MAD ABOUT IT AHHHHH!

And then there’s the scene at the very end, at what I am assuming is the Fist of the Firstmen? Sam and co (YAY DOLOROUS ED) have been digging latrines for approximately 12 episodes, and they hear the three horn blasts that mean Walkers. So everyone runs back to camp except for Sam, who hides behind a rock and watches the Others come by on their undead horses directing the movement of a whole mess of White Walkers. Remember the Walkers we saw last season when Jon injured his hand? Remember how they were fast and strong and scary as hell?

Now look at these Walkers.

Do they not seem a little…Shaun of the Dead to you?

Whatever. At this point I’m just over here mumbling about the honor of Jon Stark and how Qhorin Halfhald is a HERO!

Elena:  Rachel’s reaction is what happens when HBO tries to be subtle.  The elements of this being a hugely pivotal (except not at all because he was only faking!) role in Jon’s life are there.  We have heard the boys whispering about how that’s Qhorin Halfhand, and I think it was explained to Sam who he is.  We had Qhorin’s comment to Jon LAST episode we saw them, “I hope you can do what needs to be done when the time comes.”

But the way this was staged…weak.  It made Jon look like a little Lord of Winterfell who is lost North of The Wall, not a man of the Night’s Watch who is consciously rejecting that life.

Maybe the show writers wanted to slow down Jon’s growth from an angry youth to a full man, and thought that showing him make that kind of momentous decision less than a year after leaving home was too soon.  Maybe they thought we thought the Wildlings would see more potential in a malleable youth than a man of strong convictions.  Or maybe they really are doing what Rachel suggested and trying to diminish the most admirable sides of the characters it’s easiest to like in the books because HBO doesn’t like its viewers to have easy heroes.

I don’t know what their decision process was.  But I know this:  I was confused about why Qhorin was talking about Jon’s parents.  That Jon could be goaded to kill a man for calling his mother a whore has exactly dick to do with his willingness to join the Wildlings.  Jon has been captured.  It’s not like he’s getting back to The Wall ever anyway, most likely…so it’s not like he could have been thinking (er…if it wasn’t planned that he kill the Halfhand) afterward that “oh, shit, killing the Halfhand means I can’t go back.  Oops, guess I’ll just join the Wildlings then.”  And from the Wildlings point of view, the fact that he killed Qhorin Halfhand in a fit of rage for insulting his mother would just make him look more dangerous a prisoner, but not a more likely prospect for conversion to their cause.  Jon wasn’t fighting for his freedom in their eyes, but from hot emotion.  The fact that he won would have made him look like a badass, sure, but they would have watched that battle, shrugged at the outcome, bound him tighter, and walked on.  They would not have looked at him and said “now you are one of us.”  It. Made. No. Sense.

If Jon and Qhorin had been arguing about loyalty to the Night’s Watch, and not betraying secrets and their brothers, and Jon was like “Fuck the Night’s Watch, I didn’t want to go but I had nowhere else, I’m 17 years old and I’ve never really kissed a girl and the Night’s Watch wants me to die an old man—or a young one—who has never really kissed a girl, so fuck that, and fuck you if you don’t like it.”  HAD THAT BEEN THEIR ARGUMENT THE “HE’S ONE OF US! HUZZAH!” REACTION MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

But, y’all, that was not Jon and Qhorin’s argument.

This is not to mention…there was no retaliation from the Wildlings for him killing their most valuable prisoner?  COME THE FUCK ON.  If they know enough about who Qhorin is to be impressed that Jon killed him, then why on earth would they have let him be killed?  They all just formed up a sparring ring and let them have blades, really?  Because it’s not like King North of The Wall Mance Fucking Raider would have wanted to debrief Qhorin Halfhand or anything.  Not at all.  No chance of that!  The Wildlings reaction was just…unbelievable, when I sat down later and thought it through.

I am also upset over the future interplay between Jon and Ygritte now that the fight was about his whore mother (or was she?) and not his desire to be his own man and have his life back.  Because if he had said “I’m taking my life back” then he would have had to put a move on her.  This way, he can still be all emo and reluctant to bed her until he realizes it’s part of his disguise and mopes about it for an episode first.  I would much rather see him take a positive action to embrace his own sexuality rather than having to be seduced.  Sigh.  As much as I am all in favor of ladies doing it—Talisa style—that doesn’t mean I want MEN to be the ones getting seduced against their will and understanding and moral code.

Actually…looking back at the sex we’ve seen this season…the bulk of it by far has been women seducing men against their better judgment and very much being the sexual aggressors.  And I am quite sad to realize that perhaps the most sexually equitable relationship IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING SHOW so far has been Cersei and Jaime.  You guys, there is something seriously fucked up when the people with the healthiest sexual relationship are the twins doing each other.

I’m actually quite serious about this.  Talisa pulled a romance novel hero on Robb where she was like, “I’m going to seduce you even though morally you are reluctant because you will enjoy it, so just like back (or stand back, whatever) and let me do the rest.”  Fine, so they are probably healthy up after he makes his choice about it, but still, putting your boobs in a man’s face and expecting him to make a morally responsible decision at that moment is…questionable at best.  Cersei is using her power as Queen and Head Bitch Lannister in Charge to use Lancel at her whims.  Margaery is more than a match for poor Renly…or would have been, had he lived.  Melisandre and Stannis?  What black magic did she use to overcome his normally prosaic and plodding moral compass?  Osha having to do nothing to slit Theon’s throat in his sleep (had she so chosen) except drop her robe.

And then in the more traditional roles of men using women we have Craster with his daughters, all the whores who got fucked and abandoned or abused along the season, and Shae, whom Tyrion might love but who is still paid for her work and that puts her in a position of subservience at least until she can make him so in love with her he’ll do anything to keep her (at which point she moves to unhealthy column #1).  Regardless of what is worked out after the wedding, any woman married off for political reasons is, as Cersei put it so elegantly, being “sold like a horse so he could ride me whenever he wanted.”  So…yeah.  Where’s the healthy couple with no power dynamic or discrepancy at play?  The most fucked up relationship of them all.

I had not really thought about this until now.  Just wow.  Possibly most fascinating is that in aggregate this season has had a lot of exploration of female sexuality as a weapon.  Back to Cersei, who seems to just be speaking all the truths, telling Sansa to learn how to use it.  So much for women being helpless…but Margaery Tyrell already proved that being more feminine than most can be much more powerful than Sansa made it seem.

Overall Thoughts on Season 2

Rachel: All in all I found Season 2 to be much more uneven than Season 1. It had some absolutely fantastic episodes and moments, but it also seems to be slipping dangerously close to re-imagining. Season 1 was so true to the novels, and with all the events and characters we’ll see from the Storm of Swords storyline – this show could easily go the way of HBO’s other fantasy series and look upon the books as mere inspiration for the show itself rather than a guide to the storyline.

Maybe that won’t happen. Maybe they’re stretching some revelations in order to up the drama of the Season 3 premiere. Here’s hoping, because as much as I love Tyrion Lannister and all the other baddies of Westeros, it’s the heroes that keep me coming back, and so far HBO seems to be ignoring them.

Elena: I enjoyed Season 2 much more than Season 1, and I think that had to do with my having read the first book (or, mostly).  I do hope Rachel is wrong and the show maintains a decent amount of integrity toward the source material, that they have a plan for all the sideplots they are lopping off or shortening or shifting about.

For Season 3 I am hoping for more of the courtly politics and intrigue, and some more characters to meet up the way Jaime and Brienne have.  For example I think Sam and Bran would become BFF’s if they met.

In the meantime, everyone is in a safe (enough) harbor, and I am content to gestate my anticipation for a full nine months before shadowbabying forward to Season 3.